Currently we flinch from changing vtiger source because it’s size is simply not manageable for (php experts but vtiger) beginners, even more because it’s not very well (technically) documented.

I think two things are very important:

1. “Divide and (let) konquer”: divide the monolitic vtiger application in smaller parts (modules, …), even the core itself (for example custom field types, so that they can be customized and we can create new ones)

2. Document the parts (technical documentation)

Most of us users need to customize vtiger. When we have this infrastructure, we can dive in deeper.

Thus more bugs will be found and fixed and you will get more patches, since we wouldn’t have to understand the whole vtiger source, and it will be easier to fix these bugs.

And you could concentrate more on coordination and documentation, and taking vtiger to the next level.

Just my 2ct.

Frank

I do follow your point. What do you advocate for immeidate help as of now please?

I believe Frank hit the nail on the head - VTiger code structure currently is *NOT* programmer-friendly, and the only ones who are able to contribute nowadays are the very few programners who have made an extraordinary effort to understand it.

They’ve invested considerable time and energy in developting shortcuts and work-arounds. And becuse this was hard to do, and represents a great personal investment, they may feel the need to be recompensated for their efforts, so they are now maybe selling these solution as services, modules, consultancies, bounty-hunting, or you name it.

So in truth, 1) you may have only a very small public technically capable of answering your request (in fact, you probabily know most of them) - however, 2) they may not be very willing to part with their hard-earned findings, specially when they are making a name and a living from selling these solutions.

So that is why Franks has it sooooooo right: with his concept of dividing up the code and making it easier for anybody to modify it (and not only the highly capable, motivated, and most invested), you’ll have MANY more people in the position to answer your plea.

AND, by asking less of each, you will get more overall. Why? Well, the easier it is to develop improvements to a code, the easier it is to share it too, since it represents less of your life going away. It’s human nature, and charities have known that for a long time - they make it easier for people to give, by asking for less at a time.

As a (future) user, I look forward to the day when I can use VTiger for my livelyhood, without fearing mysterious and unworkable bugs showing up at the worst time. Making the code transparent and organized is a great step towards that.

As the “keeper of the code”, we enthrust our hopes in you, Richie, to get it there, and then “you could concentrate more on coordination and documentation, and taking vtiger to the next level”

[well done, Frank!]

First we need to realize that those who can contribute are few, but each of them can contribute a lot. It is the opposite of the ideal situation I described above.

Again, let’s look at charities, who understand human nature well and have been getting stuff “for free” for millenia: if you want big contributions, make the donors famous!

Name a building after them, a floor, an isle, or have at least a brick with their name on it. Recognition is many times as motivating as money, especially for those who are already have their food and shelter guaranteed.

How to do that in the VTiger context is beyond me, but you are in the position to imagine ways in which contributors can be (convincingly!) recognized by their envious peers (yes, envy also plays here ;-), and by the grateful users who will be benefiting from their donations.

Roger

For me, all I want is for VT to suceed to the point where I can trust it. For now, I’m not even an user yet - the only time I tried to install it I saw so many flaws that I had to abandon it. I imagine how many times this has happened to hopeful users. After all, we are not programmers, just business users to whom a software glitch is not a curiosity but instead a big distraction that will cost us time and money.

I do believe that with your leadership and the efforts of all I see working on it, it will soon be an important tool in the business world. That’s why I take the time to help it if I can.

thing. Please do not misunderstand. In case I have inadvertently hurt any feelings, please accept my apologies.

Roger I want you to know that every single person’s help/criticism/anger is appreciated as it is based on his specific experience with vtiger. I do not question it, I do not hide it. We HAVE to improve in quite a lot of areas and we will.
Please note, vtiger is as much yours as mine so all feedbacks are accepted in good spirit.
And we need all the help we can get from people like you. So please do keep posting your comments.

Richie

I would like you to study the adempiere.org project. Red1 is doing quite a good job in terms of motivating people for submitting patches, by making them famous. Within 3 months of its release that project reached to no 1 in SF.net, that not so easy, its pure community force. Even the orignal project Compiere appeared to be fearful of adempiere, even with millions from vc!!

Really commendable job!! You guys are good too no doubt, but no harm taking few tip froms others!!

Regards,
Deep

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