How women can succeed in leadership roles | Vtiger Podcast

We're teaming up with Rebecca Korean - who worked with the likes of Logmein, Akamai, Dell, and even dabbled in entrepreneurship

In this episode, we're going to learn:

  • How women can succeed in leadership roles
  • How to set up and build a successful marketing team
  • Making a shift from a career in sales to marketing
  • How marketing will evolve in next five years
  • Effective channels for B2B marketing

Read the transcript

Intro: The economy is all about the experiences going forward. I think marketing is also going to be that you are going to create great experiences that a particular prospect or customer is actually going to talk about you that is going to be your biggest biggest biggest success or you know campaign that you can do is another customer or a prospect talking something about you.

Shiva: I'm Shiva and welcome to A Job Well done, a podcast where we dive into the journeys of successful Business Leaders to find out what it takes to rise to the top If you see clarity on choosing the carrier getting a promotion landing a dream job or simply being the best at what you do. This is the podcast for you. Rebecca Welcome to the studio.

Rebecca: Hi Shiva, very happy to be here.

Shiva: Starting off.

Rebecca: Okay.

Shiva: To give our listeners a little bit of context. Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself?

Rebecca: So my name is Rebecca Korean. I'm currently heading marketing for a company called LogMeIn you may or may not have heard of it. But you may be familiar with some of our products like gotoMeeting, gotowebinar, rescue so we have some very popular products. I run marketing for them for India. And yeah, I'm a dog Mommy. I have two dogs at home. I love them and you know, they're my company. So yeah, that's about me.

Shiva: You know, I think I've seen a couple of your LinkedIn posts and one of the things that I noticed is that there are very few women marketing leaders in the technology space. Okay. Why do you think this is?

Rebecca: You know, actually India is actually in a much better space when you look at women in technology marketing or technology as such the latest stats of Anita org. I don't know if you know, there are women empowerment organization and they track actually, you know how women are doing in different tech verticals and I can talk about tech because I come from tech so I specifically talk about tech. In fact India has 34 percent of women employees in the tech space when compared to the U.S. and Europe which is in the ranges of 19 & 20. That's so actually you would say that India has more tech women employees. I think to answer your question specifically the issue that we see is in the leadership this percentage drops to one percent when you get to the readership.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So what the issue is that I think women love to work in technology companies. I don't have a tech background but I just had an affinity to tech but I think what happens is over the period of time people actually drop off for whatever reason they feel it's tough or it's not they don't really go up the ladder or they're comfortable being in the middle. So I think that's where I think you would see there is a huge disconnect and I think the only way we can embrace this is you know, I am a big I vouch I want to see other women grow and I'm committed to that as an effort for myself like I would like to see women in my team in other organizations grow and I'm happy to take on and advise people how to get there. But I think even organizations need to put that effort really growing their women employees. I work in a company that has plenty of women. In fact, we have close to 50% as you know.

Shiva: That's amazing.

Rebecca: Yes, so and if you look at all of my bosses, you know, there are lot of women employees, you know, I report to a beautiful wonderful smart intelligent women marketing CMO who I aspire to be like so, you know, I see that and I think I owe it to our organization log me in that actually supports cultivates the sculpture of letting women grow. I think and a lot of other tech companies are doing that today.

Shiva: That's really nice. Your one the things that you mentioned caught my attention first is the huge percentage of 34 percent which I want to hear. I thought women are more underrepresented but then the other shocking thing was the one person that about you spoke What are these particular challenges that stop women from rising up the ladder one of the things you mentioned about people getting comfortable. So that happens with both men and women. Is there a reason why women probably don't find the ladder or are there any challenges that women faces?

Rebecca: It's a never-ending topic sometimes what happened women also have a lot of responsibilities to their home. So they sometimes take a break a lot of good organizations are actually having the initiative to bring women back from their breaks. Like, you know, I know Amazon recently launched the come back to work Google has an initiative like that. So actually women, you know are being, you know focused on to come back after they take a break maybe, you know they do have to look after their Kids all of these things come in the way certain women balance is really well some you know prefer to prioritize the family and I don't think th answer here. a or wrong You know, it's all to the individual. I think that was one of the big reasons why we don't see a lot of rise and I have heard I have not seen this in any of the organizations that I work with in certain roles you know, there are organizations that actually want male, you know senior leadership that women.

Shiva: That's unfortunate.

Rebecca: Yeah unfortunately, it still exist I haven't seen it in any of the organization's I work in but I have heard of it when I participate in forums or panels and I have heard of women actually talk about the so it still does exist. It's interesting that we were doing this panel, you know in the month of November about women empowerment and how to get women into leadership roles and the room was full of women and then one lady got up and said, it's such a waste talking to all these women. You need to have all the CEOs of all the companies the male CEO we need to actually talk to them. So true there's no point in talking amongst women on how we grew, I think it's an organization initiative that needs to be taken and I'm hoping I can see changes in the new age tech companies. I don't think they make any differentiation. But sadly that does exist one percent unfortunately is what the current leadership looks like now.

Shiva: So Rebecca, what are the simple things that leaders can do? to welcome more women and you know make the gender proportion quite equivalent in a company.

Rebecca: I think it should not be a job position should not be based on what gender you belong to it should be based on skill.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So if you have the skill you can do it. It doesn't matter if you're a male or female early on in my career I remember instance where you know we were going to work for we were going to do some in the government space in this was very ordered early on in my career and at that point there was some sort of miss consumption that you can't work in the government space you know if you are in a if you're a female and I just put up my head and I said, that's I don't care. I mean I have the skill to do it. Are you just telling me I can't do it because there are no other women doing this then I'll be the first person to do it. So I think we women should not you know hold ourselves back at all. We should if we have the skills to do the job. Job, we should just take that opportunity and move forward.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: We should not stand behind because nobody else has done that before because they were there were no women doing that. You can be the first person and you should just take the jump and you should do it. Organizations should hire for skill not for I don't think anybody does any more people now hire for skilled and not for anything else but women should not hold back just because another woman has not done. This doesn't matter. You should just go and take the first chance.

Shiva: Certainly and talk a little bit about your journey so far. Can you elaborate more on how you started off and how you got to this position that you're in now?

Rebecca: Sure. So I started my career as a salesperson, you know, I was with Dell computers first and I was close to you know selling computers at that point with Dell. I know going to Hyderabad to actually set up the Dell operations in Hyderabad for a bit was a very interesting experience. That's when Akamai had the opportunity at Akamai Technologies came in. So I took on the opportunities again I started my career there as a salesperson. I moved on to managing account development, which is before you know, the sales there is a team that actually qualifies opportunities. I managed them for a bit and then there was an opening at some point to take on a marketing role and a lot of people believed at that point that I would be a good marketer. That was my entry into marketing and you know, I didn't really think about I was going to you know be good at marketing. I thank the folks that I work at that point who said, you know, you'll be a very good marketer. I tested it. I tried it and I was very good at it. I did that for a very long time and then the journey just began and I'm doing marketing now and I love it that I this is where I want to be. Yeah, so that has been my journey and if you know look back I have taken on I think the one of the risks that I had to take was, you know, always you have you are in the crossroad you want to be a salesperson for the rest of your life? Do you want to go to marketing? So you have to make that decision, so, you know, I wanted to explore and see which one I would like and I think I'm so happy I took that risk because I love what I'm doing today. I think I was born to be a marketer.

Shiva: That's nice.

Rebecca: Yeah, and I think I arrived at my space now. I've got a similar Journey as well.

Shiva: Okay. Even I started off as a sales guy. Yeah, and now I'm a marketer and I'm loving it.

Rebecca: And I think sales people actually make good marketers because we really understand the pain. And if you start your career at marketing, you start your career at sales, then you actually become a good marketer because the alignment will actually be so good because you understand that sort of the pain.

Shiva: I think we come back to the alignment and the friction between sales and marketing later. Now. I've got a follow-up question on that if you have to boil down your success so far. What are some of the characteristics of principles that led to where you are today?

Rebecca: Risk-taking learning from your mistakes and you learn from your mistakes and you just move on you don't dwell in that I look at my life as a journey.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: I think it was a beautiful journey and over the course of the time. I have learnt a lot. I have made a lot of mistakes, but I have taken you know what I should not do from that mistake and then moved on. I will never look back again. I just move on forward. Um, so I think that is one of my characteristics, like even I would never take a retake on this podcast because once I've said it I've said it it's come out of me. Do I want to perfect it? I don't really care because I've already said it and I'd like to live like that right? So I always move forward and get better as I keep moving forward.

Shiva: Okay. So now let's say somebody has just started off in a sales or marketing carrier or somebody is in the mid carrier knows what do you think we should do to get to where you are?it could Be about continuous learning. It could build hard work. Is there a path that we would lay out for the people to follow?

Rebecca: I think it's a combination of smart work and hard work. My journey is not going to be somebody else's Journey, you know, if somebody wants to copy my journey, it may not happen because they will have different challenges. They'll have different situations. I get a lot of youngsters who want to do marketing roles. They come to me and say Rebecca. I'm doing sales. I want to do marketing but really why do I want to do marketing just because you think it's a cooler role to do or just because you look at me and you feel like you want to be like me. What's the real reason that you want? should really go inside and see you know, why you want to do that role?

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: And you know, you have to know, sometimes sales people are really good and they will miss that they have the ability to earn a lot of money. They have the ability to you know, you can earn money here, but it's very different. Right? Like it's a different Journey all together. You can do 200% 300% in your quota being a sales rep and I know a lot of people who have remained account executives their entire life like being very well. You don't really want to grow up to become a leader. They just want to be a sales rep for the rest of their life. So I think you just have to really decide why you want to do this. So I would say don't try to copy like what I did, but if you truly believe you want to do marketing like, you know, I said to people in my team that you have to hone your skills and it's experience it comes with you can't just say today, I'm going to become a marketer that is you know, as you would know the technologies in marketing evolved so much that even today. I don't think I'm a I know everything there is nothing there is nobody who can stand up and see they know everything in marketing because it's evolving so much and it's evolving every day. So do you understand the basics of it? You understand what you need to do and then you you got to figure out which aspect of marketing in the beauty of marketing is there is so many, you know, you can be a digital marketer you can focus on doing B2B you can you know focus on doing B2C you can focus on doing brand you can be the creative person. You can be the person driving the ideas. Whatever that you decide for the real reason why you want to do it and you hone your skills.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: And then and then you have to have your basics sorted. If your foundation is weak as you grow you will stumble and will fall. It doesn't have to come from like, you know, going and getting an MBA in marketing. It doesn't matter. Now you live in an era where everything is available for you to study online. Right? And then you can pick up the course that you want to hone your skill and get your foundation, so that nobody can bullshit you and you know what you're talking about. So that would be my advice to anybody.

Shiva: Yeah.

Rebecca: I'm different. I think the marketers today. I should be very lucky especially the young marketers because they live in an era where everything is available to them. So that would be my advice to them.

Shiva: Thanks a lot for that. Now one of the things that you mentioned caught my attention. It's about how marketing is ever-changing, right?

Rebecca: Yes evolving at such a rapid pace.

Shiva: Yeah, and this is an anxiety that I have but if I take sabbatical for six months, so yeah, I'm going to come back and there's going to be a 18 year old who's going to overtake me in a certain tactic. It could be on social media or doing some influencer marketing. How do you stay updated on everything That's happening?

Rebecca: No, it's impossible for me to stay updated. That's why I love agencies. I love I haven't approached where I listen to a lot of agencies hire I love to do lot of work and to listen to young people if there was an 18 old who's doing a good influencer marketing, I would hire that person because there is no way for you to be updated on everything that is happening.

Shiva: Got it.

Rebecca: You have to stay so LinkedIn is a good source, you know, and you can keep doing different courses that are available, but that's set to To how do you do Google analytics Google marketing? Well, how do you do your SEO? Well, it's you know, it's stuck on that. Sometimes when you hear agencies and some of the campaign's that they have ran you will be wowed by it and there is a lot I think these young agencies have to offer and I learn a lot from them and you know when I'm giving them a campaign to run or if I'm hiring to onboard somebody there is a lot than and they're all young people that are doing it and I remember they pulled out my goodness like I there was no way I would have known that that's even possible but market is unbelievable today. What's available today is crazy and in these young brains and what they would want to do with that technology. So short answer, no way for you to always be, you know, there will be learning from your peers. Don't be worried that you will be ever outdated. It's about how well it's not about the skill. It's how well you use what's available out there to execute something. Right, like it doesn't have to really just come out of your brain. You can leverage people to do it. And actually it's a good idea to leverage other people to make an effective campaign. Don't be the single point of failure. So I don't consider what I think. I don't think that you know, everything should start and end with me if I have a great idea, it's good. I want to take inputs from my team. I want to take inputs from the agency that I work with.

Shiva: Got it.

Rebecca: Because I think only then collaboratively, we can collaboratively get a good idea.

Shiva: Got it. I think one of the things you mentioned is er's, you know, you mentioned that you became successful and the rules that you followed might not apply to this

Rebecca: Sure.

Shiva: You've been in sales and marketing for the past 15 years. How do you see this whole landscape has changed so far? What do you think has changed? And what do you think is going to happen in the next 5 to 10 years?

Rebecca: Yeah. I think I started in an era which was and I'll talk about the errors that I existed in when I did marketing right? There was an era where we talked about how good your product was?

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: You remember that? Era was I don't know if you remember. I don't know how old you are. There was an era which we only talked about how good your product was. You talked about the product you continuously doctor features like yeah, the features are how good you are and then it was about like the customer is the King right? Like so what would you want the customer to have to think. Today It's actually all about really the relationship and what your customer is actually saying about you. And is your product impactful and which is why the whole concept of customer experience is so big today. So if you have to Market and if you have to get your product out there influencers champions within the customer base is going to be super super important creating customer journeys that are impactful for their customer I think is going to be really really important and that's the future super personalization. Actually a colleague of mine was talking about A concept which is, you know, an experienced economy, which is really the economy is all about the experiences going forward. I think marketing is also going to be that are you going to create great experiences that your that particular prospect or customer is actually going to talk about you that is going to be your biggest biggest biggest success or you know campaign that you can do is another customer or a prospect talking something about you so, know peer reviews having customers to actually like have podcast like this talk about why they use it. What's the benefit? I think those would be some of the things that we are focused on going forward.

Shiva: Okay. Now, let's say there's a B2B company out there. Okay now back in 2020 or the next couple of years. Where do you think they're going to find a lot of growth in terms of channels or tactics.

Rebecca: Super personalization.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So let me take that back digital is going to be where most at We you and I know on that the digital space Google and Facebook much and the most most is going to be of it Facebook. I don't know if I personally wouldn't spend on Facebook and would be B2B marketer. Yes. I won't but Google definitely and I think Google is getting very smart at how they, you know, Target audiences, but I think Super personalization is going to be something that's going to be very very very very important and unique and so do I know you as a customer.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: Do I know what you really want? How do I know? What all have you done? And why are you looking at this? Okay have I sent you something that actually is going to solve your problem before you actually said what your problem is based on my analysis of how you've arrived here. So have I targeted you hundred and ten percent to solve that problem for you that kind of precise super personalization is going to be very very very critical I think and emails will be you will never get an email from HDFC bank, which will say do want a personal loan when you are already running five personal loans with them or do you want a home loan when you already have a home loan with them? It will be hi Rebecca I see you're doing this XYZ with the bank now here is another great addition for you, you know, so super personalized. Maybe I have Googled this somewhere or I've looked at something. Maybe I've looked at buying something on Amazon, but Google knows it , HDFC knows it and is giving me offers to do this. So how super personalized you are. Okay, I think that's going to be where B2B marketing is going to be in.

Shiva: Sounds good. No moving from external facing marketing campaigns to handling internal teams. Now, you've been handling teams for quite a while now. Can you share some guidelines that one must follow to sort of set up and run a successful marketing team?

Rebecca: Yeah. I have always been like, you know, I lift and I do all the work and I know I roll up my sleeve and I'm ready to get into the grind of anything. If you know, there have been days where I've done three or four activities in one single day and I can still go on. I have the energy when you hire a team you need to relieve, you know, hire people. I love to hire people for their attitude and their aptitude and their ability to learn. Definitely learn skill is important like I said because of what is available today they can actually hone their skills while on the job. They can go and take a course and they can learn the basics of it and the rest of the things how well they are ready. I'm a student. I am still learning. I'm learning from young 18 year olds, know, there is a girl who came to intern with us and you know spending time with her for you know, two months and I learned so much from her so, you know, they have so much to offer, you know that you don't realize so, do you have an open mind to learn something from people? That is around you.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: And I'm always learning. I'm always learning from my peers in the industry. If I don't have any problem, you know picking up the phone and calling a colleague of mine in another company and say I have this problem can you help me? You know, you can you suggest what is a good way to do this? So I would like to hire people with that kind of an attitude. I think if you come with an attitude to have an open mind to learn and the attitude to you know, fix whatever happens. I think you are in the right place and you will grow you know and you should not be feeling that. I'm you know, a senior or and this or as I shouldn't got then you have to keep an open mind. I hired for that and I think somebody whose strategy could be good again that comes with experience. You know, I have I was not strategic when I started I understand, you know, I started thinking strategy when I grew up in life.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So yeah, if you have the right attitude if you have an open mind, you are welcome.

Shiva: Another next question is a curveball. So I have a team and I'd love for them to ideate and execute their own campaigns. But at the same time some the ideas are not that great. Now how does a manager cultivate a culture of creativity and ideation at the same time filter a few things out without making the team member feel like their freedom is being curtailed.

Rebecca: Fair enough.

Shiva: And sometimes my colleague comes and tells me we want to do a campaign based on a show on Netflix company. What are you thinking about man? Sometimes you think about that? Right? And you say I don't know what to say. It might be a great idea who might have great outcomes, but it's a far cry away from the conventional strategies that now B2B companies use.

Rebecca: But why are you afraid to try them why do you feel like why do you have a issue that because you're B2B company? You can't try something that was a Netflix show.

Shiva: So you can, sometimes it's it's a deviation from how normal B2B marketing works and sometimes I'm also afraid that it might tarnish the brand.

Rebecca: Sure. So I think you are at a good position to make that you know decision. So when you are hiring young people and you have a team, especially if it comes to the brand, like if the question is like if you want to tarnish the brand and you can't do it, that's fine. But did you put a scope around how your team should work like you can tell them you know what Netflix shows are off the table. Here's your scope, think in the scope like, you know, these are the things that you can think about like your persona is do target. You do persona base. Oh, yeah. We yeah, we do personally is completely so does your persona actually does resonate with this message do think like think about that? Okay, and you know, so give them a scope and tell them think like the person you're selling to is that person he's a 45 year old something.

Shiva: Like does he watch a netflix show?

Think he has the time to do that? So have you thought about that? So I think that would be something like you guide them. You're not telling them what to do, but you're sort of giving them a scope to work under and if you're challenging at thinking so be the devil's Advocate rather than telling them this shitty don't do it anymore. Okay challenge them as a devil's advocate. So I have people in my work that if I have a brilliant idea then I will go and say you know what? I want five minutes can I just brainstorm with you? and I brainstorm an idea with you and sometimes they will actually find things that you never thought of so play that role I would say to your team and then they will learn and they will know you will start to think like you and they'll start to know what you would agree or disagree with.

Shiva: My God I think that's very good advice.

Rebecca: Thank you.

Shiva: And I think coming back to one of the earlier points to mention is about sales and marketing and you said that being a salesperson is an ideal platform to grow into marketing. What I've also noticed is a lot of friction between sales and marketing teams. Now how do you think we should actually deal with this? How do you get people to align and if they're a lot of friction, how does one solve it?

Rebecca: Yeah. I've been very lucky that there's my third job in all my three jobs. I was also the sales leader.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So if I don't get along with the sales either, I think that I am in the wrong company or the wrong job. It is very, it's my number one that my sales didn't and I looking in the same direction if we are not it you could be whatever marketer you could be B2C or B2B, if your business is not looking at the same direction as you are looking at I think you're wasting your time and you're wasting your precious budget.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So here's what I do and here you can take some stuff out of this as maybe inputs, but you should before you, you know, figure out what your what you going to do for the year of the quarter or whatever. Are you going to strategize you have to sit down with your business and say what's your goal this year? What are you trying to solve for and how can I alie with you, how can I help you achieve that so you have your own rule like you have to you know, make sure that the brand is you have to work on your employer branding you have to work on the company branding but if you are B2B marketer and are driving pipeline, then you have to look at the same direction as they are looking at.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: I'm doing that. I align with my sales leadership on figuring out what their goals are and then I map my plan very close to their plan.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So I'm if let's say they have to get x amount of business. I always look at how can I get 4X of that? Here are the, you know, 20 things that I can do in that space and I will never independently run a plan. If I'm going to run a campaign I have the sales should have leadership in a room. And I'm telling them here is what I'm going to do. And this is what you'll achieve out of it. Here's how your sales team needs to contribute and when we have sort of a open conversation and agreement. And so when I now go ahead and roll it, I have them on my side. They are with me and their allies and they are you know walking the journey with me.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: And when you're done when you're reviewing we're equal partners to it because you know, I had already discussed with them what I'm going to do and they were with me through the journey so they made sure that teams were line to it. They participated in all of those activities that we're planning to do. So when we did the review we all knew where we were at.

Shiva: Okay.

Rebecca: So I will never work at a company where I cannot get along with the sales leadership because if I feel like I'm not looking in the same direction. I feel like it's like wasted time or everybody.

Shiva: I'm just very curious. That's very good advice around things that you mentioned is about getting along with the sales leader and interview process. You might need them for a couple of hours. How do you develop a knack? Figure out if you're going to get along with somebody.

Rebecca: So, you know interview is not a one way. You can ask questions like yes. to write Yeah. So sometimes what happens we always ask the candidate when I'm interviewing. Do you have any questions good smart candidates will ask you questions, right? Yes, and you must ask the question if you have to think about how the sales leaders are thinking about what situation and he will have all typical questions you will have in your round. What will you think of what's your marketing plan? I'm like, what's your plan? What do you want to do in the business this year? Let me see how I can align to you. I'm not going to run a separate plan for myself. My plan will be very close to your plan. If you have the plan to go after these industries after selling these XYZ products. My plan is to go to market to exercise that industry to these personas to get to this much pipeline.

Shiva: Got it.

Rebecca: So, you know, when they're interviewing you, interview them back, ask the questions and ask them what's their style of working? Ask them if you are a marketer. You know if you have a marketer, how would you work with your marketer? What's your expectation from a marketer?

Shiva: Got it.

Rebecca: those questions so that you know, if you align with that person or not that makes a lot of sense.

Shiva: That was my question actually is what kind of questions do you ask during an interview to understand if you're going to get along and if you guys on the same ask them what should the expectation and all of those things that I told you just I think that that's really good advice. Now this brings me to another question about how few things have changed over the past couple of years, you know back in the day. When anybody bought a product it could be a consumer product or a business product more often than not they spoke a lot to the sales team but awfully I do see a lot of self serve customers when they come they evaluate a certain product on the website. They look at reviews and they purchase without ever touching base of the salesperson or even if they're actually speaking to salesperson more often than not they've already made that decision. Yeah. So how do you see the role of a marketer in like being more important now? Like I think it's becoming much more important because as a marketer you're the one putting all the content out there. And so what's your take on this?

Rebecca: No, I think the role of the marketers actually changing because you are looking at the entire lifecycle of the customer from them or being a prospect to you know, evaluating the product to becoming a customer one product and then the entire evolution of them getting into your system as a customer to thinking of how they can buy other products or our add-on licenses or whatever you're trying to do their entire existing Journey with us is very very important. Then how do you touch them with various content now to answer your question, so we have a similar thing in logmein we do have an e-commerce portal a lot of our products as try and buy and you can always have the opportunity to buy it online. We are happy if you want to buy it online, but if you if you you know, we depending on how or the size of the company we will still have a sales rep notified that this person has taken a trial or he's you know looked at the product so they can reach out and see you know, maybe there is another a product that we can position to this person which is better for their need for that matter. So, you know, we are okay. So our website or our e-comm kudos to the customer kudos to the marketing team that you have done. You have created such a beautiful sight with content that the customer just decided to buy and this brings to my previous my first point which I told you in the beginning of this conversation, told you right? That's where marketing is going peer reviews, influencers. People are not really looking at you two make a great excellent sales pitch and then they want to know what other people are thinking about your product who's using it? Why are they using and what problems are they solving out of it? So if you have a that when I think you're in a great space you've done really well as a marketer that if people are actually not talking to a sales team upsell buying it online. You always have the opportunity to up-sell, cross-sell when you actually have a person involved with them. India, I think is still a touch scenario. That's what I feel based on my experience. You still need someone people with small businesses buy online, but larger enterprises still mean that touch and and the feel pocs and they need to try the product and they need to know who you are and they need to know your team and what your support after that all of that they need to know.

Shiva: Okay. So Rebecca moving from marketing, I like to talk about your entrepreneurial exploits. You said you started a restaurant and a bar. Can you shed more light on that?

Rebecca: Yeah sure. So incidentally both the companies that my current company and my previous company is actually headquartered in Boston. There is a bar in Boston called drinks, which is very popular and I have been going there for many years. I wanted to create something similar in India. So a colleague of mine in my Archimedes decided to do this together so I had finished 10 years at Akamai that pointed to some of stock money that I had and then we invested and started this restaurant. So do I have absolutely no idea how to run a bar or how to set up a kitchen what it involves in actually getting you know permissions to actually run a bar. But you know, it was something like really going back to school and learning how to do it. I remember I closed on the place and I was sitting in this row space and looking and I'm like, what am I going do? With this, I think the journey was good. I learned so much. I can now tell you how an industrial kitchen should look like. I actually hired a bartender from Spain. I'm just yeah, so I recruited him, you know scouting for people online. I did a lot of video interviews with people to figure out who would be the right fit for me and I bought a guy from Spain to do it all our signatures drink and he worked with us for almost a year. Okay, and then he went back to Spain after he trained the staff and everything like that. So yeah, it was very interesting and also taught me you know my capability as to you know, that if I really want to get down to it. I can figure out anything, everybody can figure out anything. You just have to sit down even if you don't know it's very easy for you to like scratch from strap start and like build something and you know, take it to market and you don't really need to worry about that don't know how to do this. I've never done this before. I mean, I think you should be fearless and you should be able to take risks. Everything is possible. If you really put your mind to it. Yeah, and one of the things I'm curious about is you doing well in your career.

Shiva: Yeah, you finished a decade in the company, which is unheard of in this time and you decide to completely shift what we are going through. What did your parents say?

Rebecca: I know people are like, oh your typical parents. They wanted to know like, you know, leave your very stable job and you know do this I wanted a break Take I wanted a break from technology. I wanted to know, I generally just wanted a break. I was also traveling a lot at that point. I was also, you know, taking some responsibility for a pack and so I remember waking up in Cochin one morning and figuring out which city am I in Hong Kong or is it like Singapore or Chennai? is it I don't know I am. where So I was in that stage where I just wanted to take a break. I quit 15 days into quitting the job. I went and got my first dog actually. That's not yeah, because I was dying to have a pet and my life was so busy until that point that I couldn't really have a pet. And then yeah, I took a break for two years and I did this and I sold and then I came back to home dog me.

Shiva: that's nice as we wind down the podcast a couple questions. Yeah. Now if you are starting off now if you had a time machine, that would go back to 20 year old Rebecca. What would you tell her?

Rebecca: I would tell her not to stress so much. We worry a lot. One thing I could remove from my past so many years of work experience is all the stress that I took because life is anyway going to turn on really beautiful and you just have to keep moving on. I think that's the one thing that don't dwell on your past, learn from them, you know, get up move on, you know pick up from whatever you are and wherever you are and just every day is a new day and keep moving on. I think that stress is one thing I'll eliminate and I'll tell myself to just keep moving on.

Shiva: Got it. I think the next question is related to this. But if you have another answer you can take it. Now what's the best piece of career advice you received?

Rebecca: Yeah, actually I did receive very good career advice when you wake up in the morning and if you don't like what you're doing don't do it anymore life is too precious and beautiful. And now for you to like do something that doesn't make you happy. I love my job. I love the people that I work with and I love going into work every day. I love to get dressed up, beat the traffic and then get to work and I like to do extra hours. I like to travel because I like what I'm doing today. So if you don't feel that then you probably are not in job and find that and do that is my advice to everybody is the advice I got and is my advice to every.

Shiva: I think we're done here. Thanks, Rebecca.

Rebecca: You're most welcome lovely chatting with you today.

Shiva: Thank you. If you want to meet Rebecca, you can write down on LinkedIn. That's how I got in touch with her and having That's a lot for actually spending this time, you know, it was a cold reach out that I did. You did not know me. I think that's a leadership trait that I see is helping people out.

Rebecca: Yes, absolutely,

Shiva: And I think tomorrow if anybody else reaches out to me, I'm sure I will respond to them as well.

Rebecca: And thanks for reaching out to me. I really really enjoyed this conversation and also took me back to a lot of things. Sometimes you move on so much. You don't look back gave me a good opportunity to look back. So thank you for this lovely afternoon.

Shiva: It was a pleasure hosting you. I hope you found today's episode helpful. I'd like to thank vtiger for partnering with us today to make the show possible. If you like what we are doing, please subscribe to the podcast so that you're notified when we launch a new episode. Also, it will be awesome if you could support us by sharing this episode with a friend or colleague who might find it useful. See you soon.